January 11, 2013 at 10:44 am
A protocol sets down optimal procedures, limits and constraints to be followed and adhered to in a line of enquiry to secure a desirable outcome. Courtesy of Vic Barnett, we also have the interesting concept of the ‘azimuth’ to direct the line of enquiry. The azimuth, as used in mapping in space or in time, has a central point and a plane of reference. The central point of this project is the Duffy’s Cut episode and its plane of reference is to examine and correct where appropriate any and all factual errors and misconceptions that come to light.
All the protocol postings shown below are indexed by the same dates in which posts on the Duffys Cut topic appeared in the FTT (Food for Thought) page. For reference, these original posts are retained on the FTT page according to the dates shown below. The research is ongoing and is being conducted by Carleo, Celticknot and Waxwing with a view to a full-scale book being published in 2014. The protocol sets out the parameters of the research and some early findings include:
There were four, not one, ships leaving Derry in the Summer of 1832 that were equal contenders to supply Duffys Cut with labourers. These ships were the John Stamp, Prudence, Asia and Ontario. According to recent media coverage, this reality is now just being recognised and accepted by the Watson team.
Few of the weavers came from within the Linen Triangle or from Derry. It is known that Derry was one of the counties least hit by the Famine but this is unlikely to be the explanation for the discrepancy.
1832 was the year of a flurry of emigration of Protestant weavers from the port of Derry of passengers who mostly came from a radius of twenty miles from Derry but only from a North West direction. This ‘blow-in’ phenomenon requires an explanation.
At least half of the passengers were of Ulster-Scots heritage, not native Irish, therefore they were monoglot Protestant English-speakers who had much in common with US nationals in PA.
Few of the passengers were to be found in the Philadelphia City Street Directory and so they would appear to have been dispersed as far as Ohio and beyond.
These findings are plucked at random from many more that are emerging and most likely will not prove to be the most significant findings to come out of the project.
January 11, 2013 at 5:56 pm
Main Findings on Land Tenure
The Laggan area that adjoins Letterkenny and links up with Ramelton was the main linen-production area of Donegal. The Linen Triangle bound by Omagh, Cookstown and Dungannon was the main linen-production area of Tyrone.
Despite its fine quality, spinners and weavers had a rate of pay little better than an unskilled labourer. The only difference was that the work was steady and not seasonal.
Until well into the nineteenth century, linen spinning and weaving was a cottage industry, much as Harris Tweed was in the Scottish Highlands in the twentieth.
It took an entire household of three spinning daughters and a male weaver head of household to make enough to keep the family at barely above subsistence level.
After Catholic Emancipation in 1829, living conditions became much tighter due to rack-renting which forced rents up at the same time that the economy had started to grind down.
Land valuations varied dramatically and arbitrarily, even within the same parish, with some landlords pushing valuations to the limit to force more rent out of tenants.
Once having arrived in PA, it took three months’ saving of wages by a farmhand to earn enough to buy forty acres of land in West PA or OH.
February 6, 2013 at 7:58 am
1766 ‘Inquiry into the State of Popery in Ireland’, Irish House of Lords.
Taken from the book,’The Domestic Linen Industry in Ulster’ by W.H. Crawford, some of the tables and maps make direct reference to the part of Ulster that our waxwings came from. Some findings clearly shown are:
North West Tyrone and East Donegal were 60% Protestant, as opposed to neighbouring parts that were 60% Catholic.
These same parts had on average 13-30 acres per family, apart from hotspots such as Ardstraw and Clonleigh that had 0-12 acres. Therefore our waxwings may have come from a situation of relative land-poverty.
Drilling down (ouch, I felt that in my impacted wisdom tooth!), the religious breakdown of the Tyrone parishes from which our waxwings came from was:
Mainly Protestant – Donaghenry and Dungannon (80%); the rest were mainly Catholic – mostly around 60% (Donaghmore, Clonfeacle, Drumglass, Killyman) but more so in Clonoe (80%).
Finally, there were no local linen-producers in Tyrone considered to be craftsmen or sufficiently good at their trade to allow them to be given the status of sealmasters, unlike the rest of the Province where that was the norm. In Tyrone, public sealmasters were appointed to make up for this deficiency.
February 27, 2013 at 6:28 pm
The evidence seems to point towards linen from the North West Ulster, west of Dungannon, being of the poorer or scrag-end kind known as ‘brown linen’ which often went to the cotton plantations of the US to cover African slaves. Therefore, Ulster spinners and weavers were unwittingly complicit in the slave trade.
February 24, 2013 at 11:41 pm
Communication from Waxwing to Prof Watson
In advance of the Ruddy Re-internment in Ardara on 2nd March 2013
‘Can I attempt to put right what I believe to be two errors (there may be more) in how the Duffy’s Cut story could be portrayed. My version is still requiring proof but I believe that proof will come. Quite simply, I believe that at least 60% of the Duffy’s Cut labourers/weavers/agricultural workers were of Ulster-Protestant stock, and they were not Gaelic speakers. If this is true, and I believe that to be a small IF and not a big IF, it has all sorts of ramifications for what kind of welcome they could expect to receive in the US. One corollary of this is that John Ruddy may have been the only worker who came from the Gaeltacht but there may have been one or two from North Inishowen’.
February 24, 2013 at 11:55 pm
Reply from Prof Bill Watson (shortened)
“The laborers whom Philip Duffy, himself a Catholic (buried at St Anne’s cemetery in Port Richmond section of Philadelphia), would have hired on his work gang would have been dependent on contemporary labor practices. It is generally understood that in 1832, Irish contractors in the US tended not to mix Irish workers of different confessional backgrounds at work sites due to the likelihood of resulting inter-denominational violence. Faction fights at American work sites in the nineteenth century between Irish workers from different regions was common enough when the denomination was the same. Starting in the 1830s through the time of the Civil War, Catholic immigrants constituted the majority of common laborers coming from Ireland to work in the American Industrial Revolution.
As you know, Protestant Irish came earlier and eventually assimilated into the Anglo and Scottish elite. Andrew Jackson was the first Irish US president, and he made it known to PhiladelphiaIrish labor leader Gowan that he thought of himself as Irish. For the Scots, the St Andrew’s Society of Philadelphia’s records show almost no indication after the 1745 uprising of Celtic consciousness among Scottish immigrants until a 1788 reference to “paying the piper” at an annual dinner-no broad Scots words, no indication that they were a separate people. Many Ulster Presbyterian immigrants in the US eventually merged into the wider world of Scottish-American Presbyterianism over time.
Several instrumental individuals in the Donegal Society of Philadelphia who have assisted us in the endeavor to get SK001, aka John Ruddy, home to Ireland, have names that one would not assume on the basis of history to be Catholic, yet are are Irish Catholics and not Scottish Presbyterians. I don’t believe that an analysis of the names alone can explain the confessional breakdown of workers at Duffy’s Cut. In addition to the “laborers” and other manual workers listed on the John Stamp, there were also at least 10 workers at the Duffy’s Cut site who were living with him in a house he rented a mile to the south, along Sugartown Rd in Willistown, who worked previously for him at mile 9 of the West Chester RR line. These men were likely to be Catholics.
The railroad’s internal narrative of 50-60 deaths at Duffy’s Cut in summer 1832, discussed in a Spring, 1833 report, was vastly different than that which the railroad delivered to the public (8 or 9 deaths), after the disappearance of every copy of the Oct 3, 1832 Village Record, and the sequestering of the Ogden Diary, etc. Public discussion of the epidemic in American newspapers often included mention of alleged moral failures such as allegations of alcoholism specifically among the poorer, more Catholic groups of victims, but not so in discussions of groups American-born Protestant victims.
This was a time of brutal violence against immigrants meted out by Nativist mobs. There are other instances in 1832 newspapers of Pennsylvania vigilantes killing immigrants suspected of having cholera. The 1831 Orange-Green riot in Philadelphia was an indication of preexisting interdenominational problems, and presaged the 1844 Philadelphia “Bible Riots” that pitted Protestant Nativist mobs again Irish Catholic immigrants. Nativists were responsible for deaths of Catholic immigrants and the destruction of several Catholic churches including St. Augustine’s Church and St. Michael’s Church, and cannon rounds were fired by them into St. Philip Neri Church (still visible to this day). This was certainly not a utopia in 1832 or 1844. The Ursuline Convent burning in Charlestown, Mass. in 1834 is part of the same general picture.
The Nativist groups of the 1830s were a precursor of the Klan of the post Civil War era. Our Powerpoint presentations for the public include a good number of 1830s-1870s racist depictions of Irishmen as simians. One in particular stands out, entitled “contrasted faces” and shows Florence Nightingale on one side and a bestial “Bridget McBruiser” on the other side. If we cannot call this “white on white racism,” then we had better redefine the term racism.
When I applied for the Pennsylvania state historical marker for Duffy’s Cut in 2002 I was told by a bureaucrat in Harrisburg (the state capital) that I needed “to prove the statewide or national significance of the death of 57 Irish-Catholics.” Had he used almostany other hyphenated minority, there would have been a national outrage here in the US. It took alot of politcal influence to get that marker even though the Irish are the secondlargest ethnicity in Pennsylvania after the Germans. With help from the Chester County Police Emerald Society and the Ancient Order of Hibernians, we obtained the marker and we all made sure that there was a reference in the marker verbiage to the deliberate denial of care of the workers that is discussed in the sources.
I was at Jim Thorpe, PA today (formerly Maugh Chunk), and saw the prison where several of the Molly Maguires were hanged in 1877-1879. The verbiage on the state marker located there is somewhat dubious and it was only granted in 2006, two years after our Duffy’s Cut marker- despite a Hollywood film starring Sean Connery and Richard Harris that appeared decades earlier, and a national consciousness in the US on the subject equal at least to the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire.
There is a reticence in Pennylvania to even acknowledge that anti-Catholic or anti-Irish bigotry even exited. Today on my way home, I saw in Packerton a huge McDonald’s restaurant sign showing the fillet of fish sandwich marketed to Catholics during Lent. Some bigot write in huge black ink: “All Catholics are pedophiles.” No one had made an effortto cover it up. Preposterous!
Regarding the issue of violence to the work crew, the first seven sets of remains we recovered at Duffy’s Cut were murdered in a manner which Janet Monge, bone curator of the University of Pennsylvania Museum (and holder of a PhD in physical anthropology), said was reminiscent of the manner of death of the men at Custer’s “Last Stand”at the Little Bighorn in 1876 at the hands of the Sioux, whom she has also examined. The Duffy’s Cut victims show no signs of defensive wounds whatsoever, indicating that they were probably tied up or otherwise incapacitated prior to their murder. Janet will discuss this in depth in our forthcoming secondbook, and the context for violence to cholera victims in 1832 Pennsylvania will be my chapter
in the book. There is ample material for both subjects”.
February 25, 2013 at 8:39 am
Commentary on Prof Watson’s Rebuttal
The essence of Bill Watson’s reply is that there was no way that the young men coming off the ship(s) from Derry that Summer would have been allowed by Duffy to work together in the Cut if they were of different religions. Duffy only employed Catholics?
This position would have to ignore that these same young men lived side by side in Ireland without any violent eruptions taking place. It is notable that North West Tyrone/East Donegal, from where these unfortunates came, was spared the agrarian revolts and there is no record of Defender, Peep O’ Day or United Irishmen activity in that neck of the woods. Granted there was the murder of the Earl of Sligo, and that the Orange Order had a healthy presence, but there were no instances of ‘rough justice’. Assizes records should be able to bear this out. The position would have to also ignore that these fellow travellers of different religions had just come off a lengthy and unpleasant sea journey, living cheek by jowl, without any violence breaking out. So what could Duffy be wary of, especially given his urgent need of a young, fit and muscular workforce?
If one follows this Watson line of reasoning further, and if by chance Duffy took on all the suitable young men, they would then have been brought as a supposedly volatile mix to a dangerous work site. There they were fed copious amounts of liquor as part of their wages and it would then be a case of stand well back and there would be no need to invoke mysterious horsemen to account for any subsequent violence. In short, Duffy would have been guilty of being complicit in reckless endangerment of life. Why would the Railroad Company seek to bury this truth when all they needed to do was to hang Duffy out to dry?
In short, and whichever way this initial part of the story would go, there seems to be little to support the insistence by the Watsons that the Duffy’s Cut workers were all Catholic and Gaelic speaking. The significance of this insistence is that these workers are being portrayed as an alien presence in the US who would have been treated as sub-human. If one were to accept this questionable assumption, that prepares the ground for even more questionable assumptions about the Duffy’s Cut episode and as to what exactly happened.
February 27, 2013 at 6:37 pm
There seem to have been latent forces at work which failed to draw recruits from the Gaeltacht, with the possible exception of John Ruddy. Presumably monoglot Gaelic speakers could not read the English papers and posters that were sirens for the Anglicised Ulstermen from further East.
January 9, 2013 at 1:08 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #1
Critique of Dr Janet Monge’s findings – 17th September
Misspellings of Names needing correction * – ditto
Cholera epidemiology – 18th September
‘Murder Scene’ reconstruction – 19th September
Selection of Waxwings * – 19th September
Watsons’ ‘identified’ names * – 19th September
Origin and Problems with Murder Theory – 19th September
Possible Downing Tools and Revolt – 19th September
Mysterious East Whiteland Riders – ditto
Patchells – 20th September
Philip Duffy – 20th September
Local Newspaper Coverage – 21st September
US Naturalization Recording * – 22nd September
Names on Memorial * – 22nd September
Internal US Migration * – 22nd September
Vulnerability to Duffy Blandishments – 22nd September
Prior Family Presence in PA awaiting * – ditto
District Court Records * – ditto
Watson Rebuttals – ditto
* These items are testable and verifiable
Dr Monge’s analysis begs a question as to the underlying state of health of the railroad workers, and in particular whether there was a possibility of scurvy, tapeworms and nutritional anaemia. In other words, were these workers half-starved before they left Ireland? Certainly, symptoms of advanced scurvy were being reported in Donegal ten years later. A peculiar phenomenon amongst Irish manual workers was the acute onset of scurvy and sudden death with heavy labour amongst males fed on an unaccustomed and normal diet not loaded up with potatoes.
Records do not appear to show any evidence of a requirement or push from Irish emigrants to become naturalized US citizens, whether or not they chose to make the US their future home. What needs researched more is the connection between citizenship and land ownership in the US. Could anyone acquire land without any legality or checks as long as they had the money (a modest enough sum) to pay for it?
February 27, 2013 at 6:45 pm
Much has been made of the dental anomaly found in John Ruddy’s cranium, namely a missing congenital first maxillary molar. While this is indeed rare, there were at least thirty males in Donegal who would have had a similar defect. Nonetheless, a nugget of a find.
Much less attention has been paid to the blanks that have been drawn in archival searches and that requires further scrutiny. There could be a mine of information still to be unearthed from that kind of research.
January 9, 2013 at 1:07 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #2
Only males naturalized?* 23rd September.
US work was seasonal and return to Ireland was unrecorded? * 23rd September.
57 bodies not buried in the cut, nor fifteen, what number then? * 23rd September.
Specificity Errors, Sensitivity Errors and Unreliability of Ancestry.com ** 24th September
Names picked up on by Watsons as in error – McGarty, Houston, McGourley (not on JS), McKinney, Barber, Devaney, McCanning * 4th October.
Blocksley Almshouse 5th October
Transcription Errors * 6th October
Mistaken Corrections (my fault) 6th October
Passenger Profiles different for the four ships * 7th October
Map occupations by parishes/unions/baronies of origin * 7th October
* Testable and verifiable
An audit will be carried out with the Duffytemp Excel spreadsheet to demonstrate the failings and shortcomings of Ancestry.com. The waxwing names were selected so as to circumvent problems with ‘too many choices’and direct comparison will be made of DuffysCut names versus Others to test what seems to be the Watson hypothesis that non-discovery means foul play by murder or unreported sudden death.
February 27, 2013 at 9:51 pm
One possible flaw in the methodology of selecting more distinctive ‘waxwing’ names is that this could produce a biased sample of a disproportionate number of planter names and too few native Irish names.
The main purpose of this method was to test-drive Ancestry.com which has commandeered historical and census personal tracers. If Ancestry proves itself to be an unreliable search engine there could be far too many false negatives from searches. This in turn would mean that being untraceable does not equate to foul play.
January 9, 2013 at 1:06 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #3
Other sources – PA Government website, Railroad Company, Sister of Charity, Public Health Agencies * – 7th October
Poverty trap 7th October
Familial occupations * 7th October
Weavers escape labouring * 7th October
Weaving factories in PA 7th October
Fashion for calling self weaver, even if juvenile, varied between boats * 7th October
Reliability and Benefits of Flaxgrowers Lists * 7th October
Sibling variations by occupation * 7th October
Criteria – place of origin, surname, alternates, family first names, tithes, hearthmoney, Union petition, Muster rolls, Flaxgrowers, Plantation, ship, fellow travellers, age, gender, status, children, occupation, clustering, census records, medical records, BDM, church membership, headstones, return home, PA settlement, beyond PA * – 7th October
Patterns between these many variables should become clearer on Excel. One speculative chain of events that could be tested is that the Protestant emigrants were of planter stock, their immediate ancestors had signed up to the Union with the UK, their reward was a slump in the line trade and an end to tariff barriers, their linen was of poorer quality suitable only for export to the slave plantations, their families were large and of at least 6-7 – too much for small plots with poor soil, young males could find no work as weavers as it was still a cottage industry, work in factories had taken off in PA and active recruitment of skilled weavers was put in motion etc
February 27, 2013 at 9:57 pm
All of these possible links can be tested using a covariance structure analysis technique such as AMOS. The particular beauty of the Waxwing Project is that a sample of around three hundred emigrants can be explored as a cohort to tease out push and pull factors towards exile during that particular period in Irish history. Lessons may be forthcoming from that approach that could be applied to individual ancestral searches.
January 9, 2013 at 1:05 pm
Duffys Cut Protool #4
Coefficients of Variation may be possible for each name by district * – 8th October
Local or specialist knowledge may be tappable into – 8th October
Brickwalls in Ancestry searches even for super-waxwings * 8th October
Watson correspondence cites tax, property, Village Record newspaper as additional sources * – 8th October
Watson acknowledges Putetill could be Patchill but dismisses the other suggestions (quite reasonably for Buchanan and Skipton which were long shots) * – 8th October
Mitchell and PRR sources definite about the number of 57 dead – 8th October
Yet more insistence on reliability of their version from the Watsons – 9th October
* Testable and veriiable
Chapter is being written up by Carleo which can serve as a working paper to be developed further, taken into account many of the points raised in the posts.
January 9, 2013 at 1:04 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #5
The majority of the waxwings were English-speaking Protestants * – 9th October
Watsons had access to original and more trustworthy sources and so their version is credible * – 9th October
Smoke and mirrors approach and lack of methodology * – 9th October
150 fit young men came off the four ships * – 9th October
Excerpts from Belfast Newsletter portrayed a normal and literate society and economy in NI – 10th October
Pattern of ship traffic not apparent and unpredictable so what alerted Duffy to arrivals? * – 10th October
Scarcity of PA railroad archives – 10th October
Correspondence with Transcribers Guild over inaccuracy met a dead end – 11th October
Dynamic Identity Grid analysis for waxwings? – 17th October
PA weaving mills – 17th October
PRONI newspapers – 18th October
List of super waxwings – 19th October
January 9, 2013 at 1:02 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #6
Internal Irish Migration and Travel to Distant Ports * – 19th October
Initial Waxwing Lists – 19th October
Spread of Cholera – 19th October
Alternate Scenario to Murder – 20th October
More on Cholera – 20th October
Worshipful Companies – 20th October
Defence of Watsons – 20th October
Murder theory not in book – 21st October
An added advantage to the selection of waxwing names is that they are for the most part only to be found in the northern part of Ireland, within a convenient range of Derry port. A smattering come from slightly further afield in the eastern part of Northern Ireland. Otherwise, with the relative scarcity of other departure points, one would expect much migration upwards from at least the midlands of Ireland. It all begs the question that, with all the millions that left from Ireland, which ports did they leave from and were they mostly English ports?
January 9, 2013 at 1:01 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #7
Donegal Act of Union Supporters – 23rd October
Donegal Faxgrowers – 23rd October
The Laggan – 24th October
Location of Flaxgrowers means sectarianism? – 24th October
O’Hearns on Murlands – 25th October
Murnames – 25th October
Poverty of weavers – 25th October
Cholera in US – 25th October
Bill Watson Rebuttal – 27th October
Dirty Dealings – 27th October
January 9, 2013 at 1:00 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #8
Daily Mail Rebuttal of Watson Account – 27th October
Cholera in PA in perspective – 27th October
Words of Caution from celticknot – 27th October
Hashing and rehashing of waxwing names – 28th October onwards
Further afield waxwings – 31st October
Dippam site – 1st November
Unreliability of Ancestry filters * – 2nd November
Suggested criteria – 2nd November
Final List – 3rd November
January 9, 2013 at 12:59 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #9
Coefficient of Variation of Places of Origin * – 7th November
Ancestry Family Trees as a Tool – 7th November
Surname Map of Ireland – 8th November
Generations to be covered? – 8th November
Orange Order in PA – 9th November
Switching Occupation * – 9th November
Surname Finder from Irish Times – 9th November
Ulster Planters – 10th November
Dynamic Grid – 11th November
A generation either side of the waxwings would be sufficient coverage to give a picture of the social circumstances and knock-on effects of the period before and after (but not during) the Great Famine of 1845.
Duffys Cut Protocol #10
Background Material from celticknot – 12th November
Watson Appraisal of Ancestry – 12th November
Critique from Carleo – 12th November
US drift of emigrants * – 13th November
Donegal Landowners – 13th November
Non-landowning waxwings * – 13th November
Discrepancies in Land Valuation per landlord * – 14th November
Major Tyrone Landowners – 14th November
Major Derry Landowners – 15th November
Landownership could be for as little as one acre of land which begs the question why there were not more small-time landowners in Ireland. The price of a passage to the US was not cheap and ownership of a small plot would have offered protection against eviction. It may be that landowners deliberately did not make the better land available for sale or allow it to be broken up into small parcels.
January 9, 2013 at 12:57 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #11
TC Foster’s Book – 17th November
Model Examples of Search – 17th November
Rev George Sampson’s local history – 18th November
Lazaretta Quarantine Station – 19th November
Clusters of passengers * – 21st November
Donegal Trade Directory – 21st November
Profligacy of Ancestry * – 22nd November
Eileen’s first attempt at systematic search – 22nd November
Philly Street Directory * – 22nd November
Heritage Quest v. Ancestry – 22nd November
A number of useful contemporary sources here which require to be digested and worked up.
January 9, 2013 at 12:56 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #12
Economic advancement of waxwings – 23rd November
Literacy – 24th November
PA attitudes to Irish – 24th November
Earl of Leitrim – 24th November
Chain Migration * – 25th November
Passenger Act – 26th November
Stanley Lebergott – 26th November
Muster Rolls – 26th November
PA Wards – 26th November
Protestant Sects – 27th November
January 9, 2013 at 12:55 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #13
Ohio and Beyond * – 27th November
Dubious Murder Scene – 28th November
Composition of passenger lists at variance * – 28th November
Dr Fisher PA – 29th November
More Riddles incl Maiden Aunts * – 29th November
Sent Ahead? – 29th November
The Settling In Period * – 29th November
Frontier Settlement – 30th November
Wilderness Censuses? * – 30th November
The Scots-Irish Character – 1st December
More Search Ideas from Eileen – 4th December
Use of Ancestry – 5th December
January 9, 2013 at 12:54 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #14
Indentured Labour – 5th and 6th December
Capture/Recapture Methods * – 8th December
Locating Method * – 9th December
Timelines and Mapping * – 9th December
Overview of Methodology – 10th December
Passenger Clustering * – 10th December
Local Papers for Timelines – 10th December
Before and After 1832 for Timeline – 10th December
Use of Excel – 10th December
Ships Before and After – 10th December
January 9, 2013 at 12:52 pm
Duffys Cut Protocol #15
Transcription Errors * – 11th December
Emigration patterns by family by parish * – 11th December
Move patterns * – ditto
‘Too many choices’ * – 13th December
Review of way forward – 13th December
Triangulation of PA settlement patterns * – 13th December
Alternate names – 13th December
May 24, 2012 at 5:16 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/23 at 10:56 pm
Ambrose McGuigan was a Defender who had a bounty on his head for committing seditious oaths against the English government. He worked under an alias “Switcher Donnelly”, his new last name being perhaps a homage to his mother’s family or a ruse to elude the authorities. He used dance instruction as a cover for his more illegal activities and violence towards those he viewed did not sympathize with native Irish land tenants. He was well educated, fluent in many languages and his ancestry may have been from nobility. He had relatives in the Catholic priesthood and advocated for the rights of Catholics in Northern Ireland. He fought in the Battle of the Diamond with Catholics against oppressing Protestants. He saw first-hand a cousin who had been charged with having delivered seditious oaths – Fr James Quigley -hung, drawn and quartered.
After being transported to New South Wales, Australia, Ambrose served a seven year sentence. He had to leave his first wife back in Ireland and he was not allowed to return. After seven years he could remarry, but Govenor Macquarie said they must remarry in the Anglican church. When they signed their names the couple marked their name with an X – usually a sign of illiteracy – but he and his wife were literate. They did this in protest because they were Catholic.
In his later years Ambrose opened an inn and many of his customers were Defenders and United Irishman. His situation in life had become compromised as, but unlike Sir John McNeill, McGuigan used his position of power to help the Gaels. McNeill may have acted in the tradition of his family and ignored the people of Colonsay during The Famine, perhaps seeing the land as a business only.
After seeing the Irish subjected for years of prejudice, stress and hardship, Ambrose may have felt violence was an end to the means. The violence was questioned by those who felt non-violence, peaceful protests, speeches and legislation were the way to solve the struggles of the Irish. In the case of both McGuigan and McNeill, they were influenced by their family, heritage, environment, social and cultural background, economic circumstances and educational opportunity.
Both McGuigan and Sir John McNeill were were confident men who stood up for what they believed but something seems to have got lost in translation. Both men seemed to act in accordance with their social groups but that may not have been the norm for other people who did not see their actions as a good way of solving problems.
Both men scored well on Dynamic Celtic Identity but Sir John McNeill did not have the people’s best interests at heart. History should remember McGigan well but not Sir John McNeill. McGuigan, unlike McNeill favored Celtic culture, customs and values. McNeill’s family moved to PEI and made new lives there, just as McGuigan adapted to his new home in exile in Australia and established a business and remarried for a short time. Even though both med were considered by me to be good Celtic role models they were misguided by violence on one hand and greed on the other.
I guess one could argue how greed or violence justifies benefitting oneself or someone else as a means to justify one’s behavior. I think I understand McGuigan’s point of view easier but I don’t agree that violence was the best way to solve the problems in Ireland.
May 24, 2012 at 5:14 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/23 at 1:00 am
Sir John McNeill was a diplomat who coordinated famine relief in the Scottish Highlands. He felt emigration was a useful and satisfactory necessity but was criticized for his support for the emigration policy. Many felt the downward economy could have been better dealt with by initiating land tenure.
Sir John McNeill was a physician who graduated from medical school at the age of 19. His father was Laird of Colonsay and Oronsay. Sir John served as a surgeon in India and as a diplomat in Persia and Tehran. In Colonsay people immigrated at will and as part of a local custom and habit. Many members of the McNeill family emigrated with their large families to Prince Edward Island, Canada.
McNeill purchased Colonsay from a brother but when he toured the Highlands he visited 27 areas but did not visit Colonsay. He reported Colonsay was the least affected by The Famine but the opposite was true. After this the McNeill family did nothing to stop the emigration – only the oldest residents stayed, the youngest emigrated and the population of the island
Although Sir John was a physician who should have cared for the people he turned his back on Colonsay just when they needed the most assistance. Sir John was from aristocracy and was cultured. He may have seen Colonsay as a business only and if he looked the other way and did not point out the dire circumstances then he wouldn’t have to pay out of pocket to help them. He allowed emigration to continue because he believed it necessary to relieve the pressure from poverty, slow economy and famine.
May 24, 2012 at 5:11 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/21 at 8:11 am
Dr William MacNevin, an Irish patriot and leader of the United Irishman, advocated for an end to the penal laws placed on the Catholics by the English government. His ancestors were driven by Cromwell from their large landholdings in Northern Ireland and settled in Connacht. He attended local schools until an uncle, who was a Baron, physician and was in exile, sent him to medical school in Prague and Vienna. It was a custom in wealthy families to send Irish students abroad because in Ireland the penal laws prevented education of the Irish.
Although, because of his education and culture he was able to empathize with people of other cultures, he was one of the few people fighting for the Irish cause and was interested in Gaelic culture. After he was imprisoned for seditious oaths against the British Government he continued to educate himself in French, German and Italian. After getting released he went to New York were he worked as a physician, and professor of chemistry.
He continued to advocate for the Irish cause and was in multiple Irish societies that advocated for the Irish cause. His experience with the English after his family was driven off their land and not being allowed may have influenced his decision to help.
Like Governor Macquarrie he loved the people he served. His temperament and disposition are revealed by his actions and he continued to be an advocate for change. His motivations for his advocacy may be that he would see an Ireland free from British rule, a fair judicial system and the end of penal laws. MacNevin may have been motivated because he had first hand knowledge of his ancestors being evicted off their land. His loyalty to the Irish may stem from this whereas MacQuarrie was motivated to be loyal to the people in the hope to rehabilitate the people and encourage them to improve their standistatus society.
May 24, 2012 at 5:09 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/21 at 7:43 am
How Sociological factors affect a person’s behavior by Cathy Moeschat.
Individuals can be examined by their roles within their social environments. Factors that influence an individual’s behavior are: cultural heritage, socioeconomic status, environment in which he grows up and level of education.
Culture: Greetings, gestures,of respect, amount of eye contact,and personal space are determine by one’s culture. What is accepted by one culture may not be accepted by another such as eye contact etc..
Socioeconomic status: If one comes from a disadvantaged household the emotional well being of the children will be affected. Parents who are at the lowest economic status experience more stress which leads to a child with more emotional problems. There’s a 50% increase in children from low income household that commit crime and emotionally may be more anti social in nature.
Environment: Behavior of children is more influenced by environment than genetics. In adults, they are more influenced by situational factors: family disconnection, lack of communication, poverty, lack of discipline, large number of children in the family, abuse and neglect. These also can lead to anti social behavior.
Education: Improvements in health, increases in income and participation in their government improve as one becomes more educated. In turn, the level of crime and imprisonment decrease.
To examine our role models and their sociological factors that may have shaped their lives we need to look at their culture, socioeconomic status, environment and education.
General Macquarrie was a Scottish/ British army officer who was educated and as such he may have been aware of what was acceptable behavior in his society: what to do/ what not to do -the politically correct mentality. If he was educated, he had wealth. So less family stress meant he was not antisocial. He seemed to be outgoing and made friends with all classes of people. His work focused on doing his best to serve the people to benefit mankind. He seemed to have come from a good environment where he was nurtured, the family connected with one another and there was no abuse or neglect. He adopted the theory that education improved one’s health and economic status. He encouraged people of lower income levels, prisoners to rehabilitate, become educated and participate in government and other businesses as a result, his identity is Achieved. He didn’t buckle under pressure, he tolerates others opinions, he is trustworthy and is goal driven. He has many positive attributes that make him an excellent example of a Celtic leader.
His history, ancestry,memory, narratives and symbols are viewed positively. He evokes a positive emotion on the people of Australia and he is still viewed as the “Father Of Australia”. He comes from a pedigree. He is memorialized in the memory and books, songs about his life.
Although Australia is not his home country, he made Australia his home. He accepted the culture, rights, folkways, religion and values of all the classes of people in Australia. This is in alignment of what a celtic leader should do. Perhaps because of his education, he was more aware of other cultures and was more sensitive to the needs of others.
His temperament, disposition and emotion may be affected by his education and culture. He learned what was acceptable, politically correct and the cultures of the people he was serving. In turn this may have made him aware of the needs of the people. He empathized with the people, therefore his views were in alignment w/ what the people needed. I don’t think he felt entitled to anything because of his position but maybe the reward for his work was to see a society improve and raise the level of socioeconomic status, health and welfare of the people of Australia. He was loyal to the people.
Mistrust Of The Government Authority: He was goal driven, Perhaps because of his educational background. His position was more important that being in power. his cultural and educational background allowed him to be more sensitive to the needs of others and he empathized with the people. His beliefs were in alignment with the people which is an excellent example of what a celtic leader would strive to be.
He was an individual. he didn’t conform to pressure from others to act in a certain way. He was confident because of his educational, socio economic and cultural opportunities. He adjusted well to his new environment. His confidence in his abilities because of the educational opportunities he had as an army officer allowed him to have a good moral and ethical compass. In his later career he spent a large effort trying to defend his actions. He was criticized for acting as an autocrat. The government wanted him to rule in a more democratic fashion. This leadership style as an autocrat may have worked well in this case because the people had a low skill level but were enthusiastic like he was. Both he and the people of Australia worked well together to improve the conditions and morale in the community. He is a great example of what a celtic leader would be based on these 5 principles, demonstrated by his actions that were conceived from his birthright, culture, education and socioeconomic status.
May 24, 2012 at 5:05 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/18 at 11:24 pm | In reply to celticknot226.
For Ireland: archbishop Troy: He is the first bishop of the Catholic Committee and leader of the United Irishman. Members of the Committee and the aristocracy are in conflict. He felt all catholic relief from the famine should be the discretion of the government. he is viewed as a coward for neglecting Irish interests. (Column I): Common Language; His history,memory and narrative are not seen favorably by the Irish. he is viewed as a coward for neglecting Irish interests. (column II) landscape: He does not take onto consideration the Irish people’s culture, rights, folkways, religion, or values. He may not feel they have a right to their land but I don’t remember reading about that. (column III); Loyalty to the clan: His may feel he is entitled to receive compensation and power from the establishment as a trade off for his advocating the interests of the establishment over the needs of the Irish. His temperament and disposition are shown by his actions in that he used his position to maintain British rule in Ireland instead of helping the Irish. He has no bond or emotion w/ the Irish. (Column IV): Mistrust of Governmental authority: He uses his power over his position to help the Irish. His goal is to maintain British rule. He has no empathy for the Irish and his views are not in alignment w/ the Irish. He is not accepted by the Irish as he has no empathy for them. He’s a bad example of a celt.
I agree w/ you Don, your ranking of these men as Celts. Jesus Christ! This was a lot of work! Next assignment a little easier please!:) Just kidding! This was an interesting assignment. Sorry it took me so long to understand it. (I hope I did!)!!:)
May 24, 2012 at 5:04 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/18 at 11:02 pm | In reply to celticknot226.
For Ireland: Viscount Castlereagh: Anglo-Irish leader who went up the ranks in his career. He is known for his participation in the 1798 Rebellion, Union With Great Britain and Emancipation Of the Catholics. He overthrew Napoleon. His involvement w/ eastern autocracies and as spokesman for violent domestic politics made him unpopular in Ireland. He had to carry pistols in self defense. In his later years he became suspicious and paranoid and committed suicide. Common Language: (Column I): His history, memory and narratives will not see him favorably with the Irish people because he sold out the Irish people. (Column II): Landscape: Although he identifies himself with Ireland he is in alignment with the Establishment. He does not take into consideration their culture, rights, folkways, religion or values. (Column III): Loyalty to the Clan: His Temperament and disposition display his actions that he acted to receive a reward by the establishment for power.He is not accepted by the group and his policies are not in alignment of the Irish. He does not have empathy for the Irish. (Column V): Military readiness: He is in conflict w/ Irish. He is on defense having to justify his actions. He does not adapt to his environment. He is not accepted favorably by the Irish. He is a poor example of a Celt.
May 24, 2012 at 4:46 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/18 at 10:46 pm | In reply to celticknot226.
For Ireland: Ambrose McGuigan: He was an advocate for the irish cause. He disliked the way the establishment treated farmers who went against the Establishment. He used violence as a way to accomplish this. He objected to the harsh punishment of patriot’s who went against the government: imprisonment, hanging, transportation and forced conscription into the army. He was transported for 7 years. After his release he opened a successful business. Column I): common Language: His history, memory and narratives may be seen with mixed emotion. On one hand he is seen as a patriot for advocating for the irish but may also be viewed negatively by those who don’t want violence to justify the means. (Column II): Landscape: He wants to preserve the irish culture, rights, folkways, religion and values and land ownership for the Irish. (Column III): Loyalty to the clan: He may feel he is entitled to the reward of a free Ireland for his hard work as an advocate. His temperament and disposition are seen by his actions of fighting for Ireland but using violence to obtain freedom. He is attached to ireland emotionally and has bonded with the people. (Column IV): Mistrust of the governmental authority: He strives towards the goal of a free Ireland.. His position may be that he is helping the people but I think he likes the use of force (his Authority) to get the upper hand on the Establishment. His views are received w/ mixed emotion. He parallels some of of the people that want to use violence but alienates others who do not. Most people believe he is a patriot who fought for Irish freedom. He is a good example of a Celt although some may feel he may be misguided by the use of violence.
May 24, 2012 at 4:44 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/18 at 10:29 pm | In reply to celticknot226.
For Ireland: Dr William MacNevin: Irish patriot, physician, Leader of The United irishman and political activist for the Irish cause. arrested for seditious oaths he was exiled for 7 years. He spent most of his career in the USA where he continued to fight for the Irish cause. (Column I): His history, memory and narratives are looked upon favorably by the Irish people. (Column II): Lanscape: He is tied to Ireland and it’s people. He is one of the few patriot’s who studied the irish language, culture, folkways and values. (Column III): Loyalty to the Clan: He has bonded to the Irish people. He has a strong positive feeling towards the Irish. His temperament and disposition are revealed in his actions that he was a strong voice for irish freedom. He feels an emotional attachment to the irish. (Column IV): Mistrust Of Government: He strove to fight for the Irish cause. He is well accepted into the group as his opinions are aligned with the Irish. He shares an emotional tie to the Irish. He dislikes the English government’s treatment of the Irish. (Column V): Military Readiness: He is accepted into the group and has adapted well to his new environment in the USA. He has a successful medical career in USA. He continued to fight for the Irish cause. He is reslient as a leader. He is a great example of a Celt.
May 24, 2012 at 4:43 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/18 at 10:15 pm | In reply to celticknot226.
For Scotland: General MacKay: His claim to fame is that he took over the scottish Highlands. he served most of his career abroad. James II was influenced by his actions.He is seen as being unsentimental to the Scottish people. (Column I): Common Language: His history, memory and narratives are not seen favorably by the people of the Scottish Highlands. (Column II); He is not tied to the land or it’s people as defined by their culture, rights, folkways, religion or values. He is seen as someone who has taken their land by force. (Column III): Loyalty to the clan: he may feel he is entitled to the land because he took it over by force. His reward is power and prestige maybe monetary.He is not bonded w/ the people. He acts out of indifference to the people of the Highlands. (Column IV): Mistrust of Governmental Authority: His goal is to capture the Highlands. His power is more important to his position. He shows no empathy towards the group and his views are not parallel to the Highland residents. Military Readiness: He is in defense and survival mode as he is a seasoned officer in the army. He doesn’t assimilate or adapt to his environment and his views are in conflict w/ the people of the Highland. he is a poor example of a celt.
May 24, 2012 at 4:42 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/18 at 10:01 pm | In reply to celticknot226.
For Scotland: Col Gordon: He bought S. Uist Estate in an auction. He made improvements to the estate. He let the rents go into arrears then asked the new tenant to pay the old tenants arrears. He had poor return on his investment. complicated by The Famine he spent more money trying to give aid the the people on his estate. He wanted to replace the crofts with large sheep farms to make money. He encouraged people to emigrate. the people were in poor condition when they arrived in PEI. (Column I): Common Language: his history, memory and narratives may not be seen in a good light. Even though he may have tried to help the people, he had no regard for their general health and welfare. (Column II): He did not take into account their culture, rights, folkways, religion or values. He was tied to his land but only for economic reasons. when the people on his estate did not provide a financial return he wanted them off his land. (Column III) Loyalty to the Clan: His temperament and Disposition revealed he only wanted the estate and it’s residents for financial reasons. he was not loyal to the people. He only wanted them to emigrate. (Column IV): Mistrust of governmental authority: His power was primary over his position to help others. His beliefs were not parallel to the Scottish people’s beliefs. He had no empathy for them. (Column V): Military readiness: He was in conflict w/ his tenants. He did not assimilate or adapt to his new environment. He survives this event but was not looked upon favorably. I don’t think his tenants put up a fight. they were so malnourished and had no other resources. What choice did they have except to move and try to make a better life in a new land. He is a poor example of a Celt.
May 24, 2012 at 4:39 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/18 at 9:42 pm
For Scotland: Sir John MacNeill: Coordinated relief in the Highlands. he recommended emigration of the Sutherland Estate. Emigration failed to boost the economy. He was criticized for suggesting emigration. The economy could improve with land tenure. (Column I): Common language: His history, memory and narratives will not see him favorably in the eyes of the scottish people. (Column II): Landscape: he did not take into account the scottish people’s desire to have landownership. He did not take into account their culture, rights, folkways, religion or values. He felt emigration was useful and satisfactory. (Column III): Loyalty to the clan): His temperament and disposition revealed in his actions of wanting emigration as a satisfactory means of ending overpopulation in the region. He wanted the reward of seeing the land cleared so he would be seen favorable by the aristocracy, He had no bonding or sentiment towards the Scottish people. Column IV): Mistrust of Government authority: His views were not in alignment w/ the Scottish people. He was not accepted into their group. He had no interest in understanding what the scottish people wanted or needed. (Column V): He was his own entity but not in a good way. He was in conflict with the Scottish people. He did not adapt to his environment. He was not taken in by the group. He is a poor example of a Celt.
May 24, 2012 at 4:38 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/18 at 9:19 pm
Me as a Celt: I think I scored well in all the elements except military readiness: Defense and Conflict: I like to pick my battles carefully. I don’t care to be on the defense!
For Scotland: Gov Macquarrie: He did well on all the columns. (Column I): Common language: His history, ancestry, memory and narratives are seen in a favorable light as one who helped establish Australia. He was the father of Australia. (Column II): Landscape: He was identified w/ Australia it’s land and it’s people. He wanted to incorporate the people’s culture, rights, folkways, religion and values. (Column III): Loyalty to the clan: He had a strong feeling for the Australians and the native people. He may have felt that if he worked to improve the lives of the Australians, native people and the prisoner’s the benefit would be a resilient Australia.His temperament and disposition is reflected in his actions. he wrote and governed Australia with the australians in mind. (Column IV): Mistrust of government authority. He strove to work for the Australian people to improve their lives. His views were in alignment with the Australians, prisoners and natives. He empathized with the people. Even though he worked as a autocrat, he never did something for his own benefit. (Column V): Military readiness: He spent his later years defending his position as an autocrat and how he benefitted Australia. He was in defense and survival mode. He clashed w/ what he believed and what the Establishment wanted. The government wanted him to work in a democratic manner. He was accepted by the Australian people and adapted well to his new environment. He had a successful career. He is a great example of a Celt.
May 24, 2012 at 4:34 pm
From Celticknot Submitted on 2012/05/17 at 9:15 pm | In reply to celticknot226.
Food for thought: Do we want to ask everyone to look at the four types of identity? I think an explanation may be needed in the book. I realize your peers may know what they are and mean but others may not and how it relates to the Celtic Leaders. I’m not sure I have enough information in this area to make a conclusion.
For example: General MacKay: Identity Foreclosed: is where a person thinks he knows who he is but has not explored his options. He commits to his identity too soon and adopts someone else’s identity without going through an exploration phase or moratorium. I read MacKay had a career in the military but resigned his commission when he didn’t feel it was for a just cause. He needed a cause in order to fight and he was unwavering in his drive to meet his goals. He took over the Scottish Highlands. James II was influenced by his actions. I guess that if he had the ability to fight in battle and take control over a large area he would have increased self esteem. Why was he unsentimental? He must have felt some connection to the land and its people to fight for it unless he only did it to be powerful. Maybe his situational state is that he compromised who he thought he was. He didn’t think about his career choices, goals and purpose in life.
State Of Moratorium: Dr McNeill in Colonsay:. This is a state of finding a sense of self. He searched different occupations and ethnics in order to find himself. He doesn’t commit to one approach. Could the same be said for Governor Macquarrie. He also had an impressive resume with many job changes. If all the types of identity go through this one stage then why single out MacNeill for this stage? Could it be said that all the leaders went through this stage? McNeill coordinated relief in the Highlands. He recommended and was criticized for recommending emigration. Many felt the economy did not benefit from emigration and if people were able to own their land then the economy would prosper. I’m unclear on how he struggled to find himself. He doen’t seem to be tied to the land or its people. His situational factor that influenced him was a conflicted state. Maybe that he didn’t know the best solution to end the poverty, overpopulation, disease and unsanitary conditions in the Highlands. I’m on the fence about whether he connected to the land and its people. Maybe this was an experiment to see if emigration would increase mortality of the people, improve conditions and the economy like he did in Teheran. In Colonsay, the people immigrated at will often with their families. He was from aristocracy, he bought the land from his family, but he worked and lived abroad. After he sold Colonsay to his relatives, they did nothing to stop the emigration, leaving just the older residents in Colonsay and the young emigrated. Without the young people Colonsay no longer existed.
Col Gordon in Benebecula: Identity Diffused: A diffusion of responsibility where a person is less likely to take responsibility for his actions or inactions when others are present. Gordon is seen as hard-nosed, eccentric or worse by the residents of Benebecula. He is also self-centered and self-justifying. He bought Benebecuala in an auction and was not tied to the land or its people. He tried his hand in government but resigned, made improvements in the land, let rents run into arrears, then wanted a new tenant to pay a fee and pay back the arrears. He did not make a good return on his investments and the money in famine relief cut into his profits. This was complicated by the potato famine. The residents of Benebecula were not forced to emigrate but those who could afford to emigrate moved to PEI. He did nothing to help the people who were in poor condition to survive the climate change and the journey to PEI. He washed his hands of Benebecula. He refused to take any responsibility for what happened there. He was just the landowner. The external situation that affects him is a compromised choice: he swaps out his ethics for his own benefit by being an unsympathetic landlord on the Benbecula estate. He had no use for the native people and he used force to evict small farmers from the estate to make room for large scale sheep farms.
Identity Achieved: Governor Macquarrie: This is when a person has a true sense of self. He tries other jobs before he gets the right fit. His resume is impressive. He has a positive outcome on society. He doesn’t buckle under pressure, tolerates opinions of others, has goals and is trustworthy. He is tied to the land and his people. Does he go through a state of moratorium as he’s finding himself? His situational state is displaced where he goes to a new country but makes positive choices for the residents of Australia.
Archbishop Troy: Identity Diffused. Conflicted state: He doesn’t seem to take responsibility for his position that he neglected Irish interests in the Famine. He was viewed as a coward, he flip flopped his views on being loyal to the crown and papal infallibility. He was in conflict with old members of the committee and the aristocracy in the committee. He seems conflicted about his views and what side he wants to be on – the Establishment or on the side of the Irish people. Maybe he did this out of fear or he liked the power he has with the establishment. He seems to want to be part of the land but not the people.
Ambrose McGuigan: Displaced state, Foreclosed Identity: He was known for his illegal activities and he had to watch over his shoulder. He didn’t like the way the farmers in Ireland were treated. If they went against the government they were imprisoned, hung, transported and forced into conscription into the army. He was transported for six years for going against the Government. On the ship he was subjected to harsh treatment by the captain. After completing his sentence he opened a bar. He was displaced by transcription to Australia. He had to make the best of his surroundings and was successful after his sentence. He was Foreclosed because I think he didn’t explore other options or careers before going into a life of crime and going up against the establishment. He seems to be attached to the land and it’s people.
Viscount Castlereagh: Compromised State, Identity: State Of Moratorium. He was an Anglo-Irish leader that went up the ranks in his field. He was known for overthrowing Napoleon, 1798 rebellion and Union with Great Britain and attempts to emancipate the Catholics. He was unpopular in Ireland for advocating violence and at the end of his career he became suspicious that he was being blackmailed which led to paranoia. He committed suicide. I think he went through a lot of career changes but had difficulties forming alliances to aid in overthrowing Napoleon. He compromised who he was (wanting emancipation for the Catholics) but he went about it in the wrong way by advocating violence. I think he was in a State of Moratorium because even though he went up through the ranks with his jobs he was not successful in his actions. His intentions were good but misguided. He was attached to the land but maybe not so much the people. He wanted to go against the Government.
Dr William MacNevin: Displaced State, Identity: Diffused: He was the leader of the United Irishman. He wanted France to invade Ireland and was exiled for seditious oaths. He was an Irish Patriot who objected to penalties for seditious oaths, searched for arms by the government and encouraged the United Irishman to defy the government. He advocated for an independent Republic with liberty and national independence. Known for his participation in the 1798 Rebellion, he wanted to be free from the English. His weakness was as a leader; he was compassionate but dishonest. He spent most of his life in the United States and made the best of it as he had a successful career in the USA. He did not take responsibility for his actions that he was dishonest and was double dealing. I feel he was tied to the land and it’s people but may have been misguided by being dishonest.
May 24, 2012 at 4:31 pm
Food For Thought: I was thinking about the grid and the situational circumstances that influence or may not influence an identity state: Oppressed, Compromised, Conflicted and Displaced. The celtic clan sees the land as it’s mother. If one does not bond with their mother they have feeling of insecurity, mistrust, suspiciousness, connectedness to family and friends and maybe rigid and combative. It’s like a mother who is on drugs who can’t give her child love, security, understanding and a sense of self. The bond to the land and it’s people may be a common thread that holds a clan together and influences the type of person he or she may become. So determining if a celtic leader has a primordial resonance or emotional tie w/ the land (explained by situational factors: internal/ external: oppressed, compromised, conflicted, displaced) and has traits of a Celt ( loyalty to the clan, mistrust of government authority and military readiness) may show his ability as a clan leader and his negative or positive outcomes on society.
A while back I asked you what happened to the O’Cahan Clan once the last leader was put in jail and died. The answer was that they dispersed throughout all professions and rank of people. Despite the best efforts of it’s leaders (whatever their identity type) to hold onto the land, the clan could not maintain the bond that linked all the members of the clan together. Gov. Macquarrie went to a new land and bonded with the land and it’s people. His Situational experience was Displaced. He traded one community for another and made it a positive experience for others.
Would it be wise to add this to the grid in order to explain columns one and two? Could this be a common link to see if these situational factors a leader experienced early in life played a role in whether they had a positive outcome for society?
May 24, 2012 at 4:29 pm
From Celticknot on 2012/05/17 at 12:18 pm
Thanks for taking the time to explain all my questions! I’m surprised you didn’t give up yet! Do all people see attributes of themselves in the first two columns on the grid? These are things you can’t change like race, history, ancestry etc.. and we are tied to the land, our values, and culture, religion etc.
Gov. Macquarrie: as you said was the Achieved Identity. It seems he has attributes in column 3: loyalty to the clan: He worked with all the citizens of Australia, not just the important and affluent. He used sentiment: he believed in the rehabilitation of convicts to becoming citizens and he also worked in Government in finding out the right thing to do. His disposition was portrayed by his actions in that he put his beliefs into action and he made laws to rehabilitate prisoners. He believed that prisoners, once they served their sentence, were entitled to work in Government or anywhere else. He spent the last years of his life fighting for his beliefs but was accused of being too autocratic. Many people did not like that he made the laws on his own, although his intentions seemed good. Had he done things differently, like a dictator would, things would have been different and detrimental to the cause of building Australia.
He has elements of column one: common Language. MacQuarrie’s actions evoke emotion in how Australian people think of him in the history of Australia for what he did for Australians. He was of the same race as the residents of Australia, just in a better position to help them. His ancestry perhaps put him in a better position to help others. He is alive in the memory of Australian people through their narratives or account of the events of how Australia was formed and he was portrayed in a good light by the people, not so much by the Government. Maybe they were jealous of his accomplishments. Where he was friends with everyone, the Establishment was feared and resented by everyone. His legacy was remembered through his being symbolised as the “Father Of Australia”. He was memorialized in books and in music.
He has attributes in Column 2 Landscape: which was Australia. He maintained the culture of the native tribes. He fought for the rights of all the people of Australia. He also strived to maintain the traditions, folkways, religion and values of the Australian people.
When I look at column 4: Mistrust of Governmental authority: I only see two attributes that would make me think of this category. Authority: where a person power they achieve is their desired goal; the other, conformity: that they buckle under pressure. These two attributes don’t seem to apply to Gov. Macquarrie. The other attributes, Striving: where he makes a big effort to make a better and stronger Australia; Affiliation: where he belongs to the Australian people and is accepted by them because of his actions and effort. His personal beliefs are congruent with his desired outcome for a better Australia but maybe not parallel to the Establishment’s view that he acted alone in making these decisions and that he needed further monitoring by the Government. The Government also wanted him to make the laws in a parliamentary and democracy setting.
Macquarrie shows empathy for the prisoners and the native tribes in Australia and his work was dedicated to them. I’m unclear how Affiliation, Striving, Congruence, and Empathy are mistrusting Governmental authority. It seems like a positive thing to me in the case of Gov. Maquarrie. I haven’t gone through the actions of the other men to see if this is a different experience for them in this column of attributes. So it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Column 5: Military Readiness: I feel Macquarrie has these attributes as well. Defense: He fights for what he believes in. He spent his later years justifying his beliefs. Survival: He accomplished many things in his career. Conflict: He was in conflict between what he wanted to happen in Australia and what the government wanted. I think if he hadn’t fought to rehabilitate and elevate a person after they were rehabilitated the English government would have wanted to keep the prisoners in prison as long as they could. They did this because the prisoners were free labor and they could manipulate them at will. Macquarrie opposed this. I feel Macquarrie was his own entity. He did act to improve the lives of others but he kept true to his beliefs. He Assimilated into the new Australia, even though he was not born there and he made Australia his home and mission. I believe he adapted well to his new environment and he was a leader in his community. He was well liked by the people but not so much by the establishment.
Identity Achieved: Gov. Macquarrie doesn’t buckle under pressure, he fights for what he believes in and he keeps pushing himself toward his goal of a resilient Australia. He tolerates opinions but he defends himself. He is trustworthy in that his actions and goals are for the people and not for himself, even though he acted alone in making the laws.
May 24, 2012 at 4:26 pm
From Celticknot 2012/05/15 at 2:50 pm
I was thinking about looking at the grid differently: At the top would be the broad term “Celtic” used to describe people who are connected by a common language, landscape, loyalty to the clan, mistrust of governmental authority and military readiness. Under this the six Celtic Countries according to the Wikipedia article could describe the geography from which the men came from: Brittany, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Isle Of Man, Cornwall. The grid could identify traits (not Celtic vs Hebrides but how the men (Gov Macquarrie, Dr McNeill, Gen MacKay, Col Gordon) were perceived by themselves- primordialism (first column): history, race, ancestry, memory, narratives and symbols; (second column): location, culture, rights, folkways,religion and values; and how others saw them: columns 3-5 on the grid (how external and situational factors influenced them).
Further they could be identified by their identity types: Identity Achieved:trust worthy, if they had goals, if they could do well under pressure; state of moratorium: increased self esteem, plodding, methodical; Foreclosed Identity: increased self esteem, unsentimental, unwavering and Identity Diffused: self centered, justifying. We could as you suggest identify who was an agent for change and who made the Highlanders leave (who was detrimental to the Scottish Highlanders). Then we could do the same for the men from Ireland: Dr William Nevin, Archbishop Troy, Ambrose McGuigan, Viscount Castlereagh.
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